On this episode of Navigating Forward, Lisa Thee from Launch Consulting chats with author, entrepreneur, and philanthropist Aaron Hurst. In a wide-ranging conversation, they touch on topics from scaling innovation in the nonprofit sector, to the differences in how AI is perceived globally, and to the importance of lifelong learning for both today's leaders and the next generation of leaders.
They also delve into the concept of the purpose mindset (including how it differs from "finding your purpose") and how it can help you create meaning on a daily basis. Plus, Aaron explains why work is changing from being like a high school band to being more like a jazz ensemble — and how that's related to the rise of AI in the workplace.
Find Lisa at https://www.linkedin.com/in/lisathee/
Find Aaron at https://www.linkedin.com/in/aaronhurst/ and https://purposeeconomy.com/
Learn more about Launch Consulting at https://www.launchconsulting.com/
On this episode of Navigating Forward, Lisa Thee from Launch Consulting chats with author, entrepreneur, and philanthropist Aaron Hurst. In a wide-ranging conversation, they touch on topics from scaling innovation in the nonprofit sector, to the differences in how AI is perceived globally, and to the importance of lifelong learning for both today's leaders and the next generation of leaders.
They also delve into the concept of the purpose mindset (including how it differs from "finding your purpose") and how it can help you create meaning on a daily basis. Plus, Aaron explains why work is changing from being like a high school band to being more like a jazz ensemble — and how that's related to the rise of AI in the workplace.
Find Lisa at https://www.linkedin.com/in/lisathee/
Find Aaron at https://www.linkedin.com/in/aaronhurst/ and https://purposeeconomy.com/
Learn more about Launch Consulting at https://www.launchconsulting.com/
00:00:03:09 - 00:00:44:06
Narrator
Welcome to Navigating Forward, brought to you by Launch Consulting, where we explore the ever-evolving world of technology, data, and the incredible potential for artificial intelligence. Our experts come together with the brightest minds in AI and technology, discovering the stories behind the latest advancements across industries. Our mission: to guide you through the rapidly changing landscape of tech, demystifying complex concepts and showcasing the opportunities that lie ahead. Join us as we uncover what your business needs to do now to prepare for what's coming next. This is Navigating Forward.
00:00:44:08 - 00:01:16:02
Lisa Thee
Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Navigating Forward podcast. My name is Lisa Thee and I will be your host today. We love to collect luminary movers, shakers, and innovators to help us navigate through these uncertain times. And today, we have the honor of bringing to you Aaron Hurst, who is an entrepreneur in both nonprofit and for-profit sectors, and he loves to emphasize the intersection point of what's possible when we bring those two worlds together. He is also an author and a philanthropist, and it's such an honor to have you here today, Aaron, thank you for joining us.
00:01:16:03 - 00:01:18:21
Aaron Hurst
Oh, my goodness, too much fun. Really excited for the conversation.
00:01:18:23 - 00:01:31:11
Lisa Thee
Me, too. So, Aaron, for somebody that doesn't know a lot about your background, can you share with us what your area of expertise is and what you do in a way that maybe somebody who's not as technical might understand?
00:01:31:14 - 00:01:53:27
Aaron Hurst
Yeah, I've been doing a lot of reflecting on that. I'm on a sabbatical right now, having been the CEO for about 25 years, decided to take the year to focus on what I want to do next. I've been doing a lot of reflecting on what is that, and I think my expertise is in a couple of different areas. I think one is really around entrepreneurship and really disruptive movement building entrepreneurship versus just purely commercial or purely like addressing a tactical need.
00:01:53:29 - 00:02:00:29
Lisa Thee
Starting movements then, not just solving a problem, solving a sector's issues at scale.
00:02:01:01 - 00:02:35:25
Aaron Hurst
Yeah, exactly. I think there's different types of entrepreneurship. There's the entrepreneurship of like, gosh, it'd be great if people had pens that were red and not just black, and you would make a little change. And if you make a lot of money and make, you know, help a lot of people with that. And then I think there's the innovation level of saying like, we need something more than just a pen and trying to innovate and instead create something that’s totally different. And I think at the movement level, it's how do we actually change mindset in society? How do we actually capture people as not just functional needs but their emotional needs to create broader change. And that really is what excites me and what has driven me since college really.
00:02:35:25 - 00:03:02:20
Lisa Thee
Wonderful. And in that, you're going to have to have a lot of endurance because people don't change quickly or easily. Can you share a little bit about your why and what inspires you to show up on the days when people feel stuck in their ways, and you've been trying to roll that boulder up the hill for a while? What motivates you when you have to dig deep to keep helping people see a vision of a different future?
00:03:02:21 - 00:03:10:20
Aaron Hurst
It's a really interesting question. There's been a lot of studies that show that entrepreneurs have mental health issues, much higher rates than anybody else, like in that their families do.
00:03:10:22 - 00:03:15:19
Lisa Thee
Please don't load my husband up with that data. It just gives him more ammunition for me. But please continue.
00:03:15:24 - 00:03:45:01
Aaron Hurst
I think a lot of it is, you get a vision for something, and you just get fixated. It's like a dog and a bone. Like you just, you need to make it happen. I think that's different than some traditional entrepreneurs or just iterating to kind of find a commercial success. I see a possibility of society being different and I see a pathway to it, and I just it's a stubbornness, honestly, that's part of the inspiration. It's just I see it. And until everyone can see it, I'm just frustrated. Like I want everyone to see what's possible.
00:03:45:08 - 00:03:54:08
Lisa Thee
So, to you, it's a mission or almost a calling, a way that we could be operating that could benefit a much broader audience than how we're operating today.
00:03:54:09 - 00:04:14:18
Aaron Hurst
Yes, I think it's that. And then at a more tactical level, with every organization I've started, I've found a way to have a steady drip of customer feedback in terms of the impact it's having. So, for example, the Taproot Foundation, we just had a constant stream of everyone applying to volunteer. We got the snippet of their essay, which is about why I want to volunteer.
00:04:14:21 - 00:04:35:17
Aaron Hurst
So, any time I was having a bad day, or I lost funding or lost an employee. I knew I could just go into that feed and read three or four of those and be like, okay, that's why I'm doing this and like get back into the stream of it. And so I believe strongly as a leader in finding a way to have that positive customer's voice accessible to every employee every day, because it really does on a bad day, get you back into remembering the why.
00:04:35:20 - 00:05:04:17
Lisa Thee
And for folks that are not familiar with the Taproot Foundation, this is one of the largest, most successful intersection points of bringing pro-bono services to nonprofits from for-profit organization. So, people extending past the legal field that want to lend their specified talents, right. Can you give us a little bit of a story of Taproot and the ten years that you ran it? I know it now continues and persists and some of the lessons that you learned through that process.
00:05:04:24 - 00:05:24:08
Aaron Hurst
Yeah, I mean, Taproot Foundation was such a joy, and it was a continuation of family work. My grandfather worked for President Kennedy and wrote the original strategy for the Peace Corps, which is really a major part of sort of my understanding of what works and how what we were trying to build, these cross-cultural connections. But where actual value is exchanged, it's not being a tourist.
00:05:24:08 - 00:05:52:19
Aaron Hurst
It's about actually being able to go in and add value. And I think I realized with the Taproot Foundation that companies do volunteering but often that volunteering is not really more than being tourists in the community. They're not actually adding much value. And that if you actually ask nonprofits what do you actually want, they're like, I need a new website, I need a new database, a new strategy, a new HR policy, and yet you'll have these senior leaders in companies going in and like painting the room.
00:05:52:19 - 00:05:55:01
Lisa Thee
Guilty. I did that when I was at Intel, yes.
00:05:55:03 - 00:06:09:28
Aaron Hurst
There was actually a nonprofit that brilliantly has a room in their office that is used for corporations to paint. And that way it just doesn't bother them anymore. Like they're just like, okay, pink this week, yellow next week, just to try to keep that from distracting them from their actual work. So, I was looking at like, what is the real value?
00:06:10:00 - 00:06:36:03
Aaron Hurst
And Taproot was, as you said, it's taking the inspiration from the legal profession that does pro-bono work. Most law firms do a little bit of traditional volunteering, but most of their value is actually giving what they know and realize that there wasn't a strong precedent for that in marketing, or tech, or HR, or finance. That if we could build that infrastructure, we could create a similar channel of resources to the nonprofit sector.
00:06:36:03 - 00:06:56:21
Aaron Hurst
And started off in San Francisco has scaled it to seven cities across the U.S. Realized as a nonprofit, we would never scale to be big enough, like we were the largest nonprofit consulting firm in the world. But there was no way, even if you're a ten times bigger, 100 times bigger, we were just scratching the surface of the need. So, we shifted in strategy instead of how do we build a market instead of building a solution, which is a really important pivot point.
00:06:56:21 - 00:07:17:12
Aaron Hurst
So, we took all of our IP and published it in a book and said, anyone like go at it, which created competition, it created a lot more providers out there, which was fantastic. We started consulting to companies to help them build their own pro-bono programs, and then we worked with the White House to create a campaign called Billion Plus Change to get companies to pledge hundreds of millions of dollars in pro-bono service.
00:07:17:12 - 00:07:50:01
Aaron Hurst
And then the last step is we partnered with the BMW Foundation out of Germany to fund bringing it to 30 countries around the world in an affiliate model. And it was great because we were the early innovator. Our product was, you know, was effective and it was breakthrough. But seven or eight years later, like it was not the leading-edge product and we were actually funding all these other organizations to learn from all we did and do something better because we were still sitting on all these legacy issues of just having built this whole system. And it was just so wonderful to see how we could take the IP and see other people build on it and make it better.
00:07:50:03 - 00:07:53:07
Lisa Thee
So, almost like an open-source software model.
00:07:53:10 - 00:07:58:11
Aaron Hurst
Exactly. Exactly. And I think that's, I think that’s what you want to do, especially when it comes to social impact work.
00:07:58:14 - 00:08:20:19
Lisa Thee
Yeah. And a lot of the challenges that philanthropy focuses on are probably not going to be accomplished in one lifetime. As you mentioned that generational work that happens. So being able to democratize the secret sauce of how to bring the best of innovation in the for-profit world into the nonprofit sector can be a way that you can have impact beyond what your organization can do.
00:08:20:20 - 00:08:46:26
Aaron Hurst
Oh, absolutely. And I would also just I mean, to bring it to, you know, current times with AI. If you look at what these big AI companies are doing, they're basically open sourcing their databases so that people can build applications on top, right? So, this is not really just like a nonprofit or for-profit thing. I think it's whenever you want to do something at a scale that requires that kind of infrastructure, that kind of innovation, you almost have to think about it more as a movement instead of just as a product.
00:08:47:03 - 00:09:36:10
Lisa Thee
Yeah, your work really with Taproot, really inspired some of my work when I was still in corporate America with Intel. We were working with AI leaders in 2015 and applying that to the challenge of human trafficking and what I noticed was the amount of recharge these experts had, and these were principal engineers and data scientists and marketing experts. They were able to recharge their batteries with mission by using their special skills and applying them to something that filled their heart up. And then it made them better at their day jobs as well. It increased their longevity with the company. It gave them things to expand and test their skill sets and different markets, and especially in the places like AI where data is table stakes for being able to do something.
00:09:36:13 - 00:10:14:05
Lisa Thee
The nonprofit area and government tend to be very data rich and skill set deficient, whereas the corporations, although they have oceans of data, typically those are usually for privacy reasons and legal reasons, separated from the teams that are looking to develop new innovations. So that intersection point was a really exciting area. In terms of, you know, emerging trends that you're seeing, especially with things like Generative AI where people can build their own, what are some trends that you are seeing that are influencing this broader landscape that you think we should be paying more attention to?
00:10:14:10 - 00:10:21:17
Aaron Hurst
I mean, I think it's hard to say we should be paying more attention to AI because I feel like every headline, every magazine, it's a little bit of enough already.
00:10:21:20 - 00:10:32:07
Lisa Thee
Oh, thank you for the candor. Unfortunately, I agree. But what, but what energizes or excites you about it, what do you think the art of the possible could be?
00:10:32:07 - 00:10:56:13
Aaron Hurst
I mean, I think the possibility is large and it’s infinite and beyond imagination. I think that's what's exciting about it. And it gets you out of just like this is the way things need to be and actually seeing that things can be dramatically different. I think the work I've done has largely been around work itself and what I think is exciting is that for a long time there is this advice given that like Lisa you should be professional. And there's this idea of being professional.
00:10:56:13 - 00:11:16:15
Aaron Hurst
And what a professional is is someone who can do the same thing over and over again with the same result. So, like you want a surgeon who's a professional because you want someone who can do the surgery over and over again and have a positive outcome, right? And that's what makes it professional. And that was sort of what drove the idea of careers is around profession and professionalism.
00:11:16:17 - 00:11:44:13
Aaron Hurst
And then you look now like what is the definition of what AI is capable of doing. It's being able to take tasks you can do multiple times with the same results. So basically, being professional is going to become obsolete in our society and there's going to need for people to actually be humans again. And the advice will not be Lisa you need to act more professional because that's not what's needed here. And there's obviously different definitions of that and you shouldn't harass people and dot dot dot. But in terms of like actual work product.
00:11:44:16 - 00:12:02:01
Lisa Thee
Ethics aren’t going to go out the window, but having that accuracy and repeatability is not going to be, it's not going to be just memorizing and regurgitating. It's not going to be something that is pattern driven. It's going to be those unique things that make you uniquely human, like creativity and innovation.
00:12:02:04 - 00:12:34:17
Aaron Hurst
Yeah, I think about it as like we've been treating it like it's a big high school band, has been like, what work is. And we're moving into a period where it's going to be more like jazz ensemble, where that ability to riff and to improv is going to be what's going to be valued. And that requires a very different educational system. It requires a very different corporate culture and different systems to support that. So, I'm excited about that and there's plenty of exceptions to how that'll work. But I'm just already seeing it, even in contracts I’m doing, how much I'm able to do without lawyers now is just in the last six months is just remarkable.
00:12:34:19 - 00:12:58:29
Lisa Thee
I'm seeing it in marketing. Yeah, yeah. I as an engineer by training, I wouldn't say that I was ever well skilled in being able to tell the story of the why people should care. And so, having something that can take the intelligence of a community of people, of what has succeeded to break through the noise is a huge accelerant for me, because otherwise I just sit there at the computer going, what do I put in now, right?
00:12:59:19 - 00:13:10:14
Aaron Hurst
Yeah. No, I think it's great for that. It's the legal thing. Like I've been able to upload contracts into even ChatGPT and say, what are the weaknesses in this contract? And it's able to spit back like very useful advice.
00:13:10:17 - 00:13:13:29
Lisa Thee
And it didn't come back with an $800 bill. It didn’t ask you questions back.
00:13:13:29 - 00:13:36:15
Aaron Hurst
Either that, or I thought that was spam and just deleted it. So yeah, it's been that's been really interesting. I found it's all the stuff people talk about. It's really I think been helpful for me as a parent. A lot of times my kids have essays or they're struggling with something. You know, the ability not to have AI write it but to actually upload it and just give feedback. I feel like it’s better feedback than I'm often able to give them.
00:13:36:17 - 00:14:02:14
Lisa Thee
That's interesting you mention that because I noticed at my kid’s soccer game, the two teachers mentioning something similar that peer reviews have always been really challenging because you have a couple of kids in the classroom that are really good at it. So, they get tasked over and over again versus having something that they cannot burden some of the stronger students with. It allows them to give a lot more students a lot more feedback, especially the ones that are struggling, right?
00:14:02:19 - 00:14:15:23
Aaron Hurst
Yeah. No, it’s like you know, back in the day when a kid is like, why does like, why do the stars, blah blah, whatever it was. And like as a parent you’re like, I don't know. I haven't been in school in eons, but then Google came around and I'm like, just Google it, dude. Like, you'll figure it out.
00:14:15:25 - 00:14:32:21
Aaron Hurst
And now I think when they come, it's like I've written an essay, I’m struggling with like how to make it better. Now technology's able to help with that as well. So, that’s been fun as a parent just to see how much that's helped improve their writing. And at least my kids school has done a really nice job of maintaining the ethics part of it, of saying this is what's appropriate and not appropriate.
00:14:32:23 - 00:15:06:10
Lisa Thee
Yeah, I've found that in my workplace as well. I know it's a delicate dance for a lot of employers on how you balance the risks that can be introduced with these breakthrough technologies. In terms of you know, making sure that your employees are making good choices about what they put into public domain. But for me, as somebody who is a lifelong learner, it's been really energizing to see the new and different ways we can accomplish things and the ways that you can recapture discretionary energy to be more focused on the things that you're uniquely good at, you're uniquely passionate about.
00:15:06:17 - 00:15:07:16
Aaron Hurst
That's right.
00:15:07:18 - 00:15:23:16
Lisa Thee
So, speaking about, you're an author in that space, if I'm not mistaken, you've written multiple books, but one that really caught my interest was The Purpose Economy. Can you tell us a little bit about that thesis and what you're trying to share with the world in terms of the art of the possible of what we can do with impact?
00:15:23:21 - 00:16:03:29
Aaron Hurst
Yeah, I wrote, I started working on The Purpose Economy about 12 years ago, published it nine years ago, and my uncle was an economist at Stanford and coined the term information economy back in the seventies, sort of predicting the rise of Silicon Valley. And sitting where I was in the front lines of a broader, bigger change happening in society with the Taproot Foundation, but for the hypothesis that we were entering a new economic era where the creation and the demand for purpose was going to drive changes in the workforce and it was also going to change consumer behavior and that that actually was going to become the fourth economic era in history and the one that would supplant the information economy.
00:16:03:29 - 00:16:19:26
Aaron Hurst
So, that was the thesis of it and it really just laid out, I think, for the first time why purpose matters for companies and not just like how to like find a purpose but actually getting into the science of purpose and what it means for leadership, what it means for employees, and what it means for marketing, and how to think about that.
00:16:19:26 - 00:16:41:24
Aaron Hurst
And it was I mean, it was such a joy to write and then to be able to do a world, you know, go around the world talking about it and see like over the last nine years since I published it, how much purpose has become a part of corporate vernacular. It's pretty hard to open a business magazine now and not see the work purpose. And that certainly was not the case when I wrote the book. So, it was really just seeing this change was about to happen.
00:16:41:27 - 00:17:06:26
Lisa Thee
If you were going to do an update ten years later now, what observations would you want to add to what you predicted? I definitely see that hunger from like the younger generations, that Gen Z, that are looking at the ethics of companies. What observations are you seeing as it's played out that you would like to, you know, take a different position on or expand upon?
00:17:06:29 - 00:17:46:27
Aaron Hurst
Yeah, a lot of it is has to do with being ten years older and sort of what comes with just, what matters at different ages and how wisdom supplants knowledge at some point. I think some of the things I've been grappling with, one is just I think a lot of this move towards corporations helping in the social environment and trying to really push nonprofits to the nonprofit sector is we’ve really let attitude towards government become very sour. And I think actually for us to have a constructive society, we need strong government, and we need a highly effective government. And I worry a little bit that the sort of push on purpose inside companies and the nonprofit sector has actually further enabled the narrative that we don't need government.
00:17:47:00 - 00:18:01:12
Aaron Hurst
So, I really want to put emphasis just on, you know, companies are amazing, they do a lot of good work, but at the end of the day, they are self-serving, and we need a government that's actually representing the needs of the people for us to actually have a broader economy that works. So that would be a key thesis.
00:18:01:14 - 00:18:34:20
Lisa Thee
Boy, and you know, just to expand on that, I was at the World AI conference earlier this year and one of the conversations that keeps coming up is technology is going to continue to innovate faster than regulation is able to keep up. That's going to be persistent. And so, if there's ever a time that I think we need a reinvestment in government to make sure that we're balancing all of our societal needs with the needs of, you know, expansion and technology and multinational corporations, it seems like a really important time to be focusing in on that space.
00:18:34:23 - 00:19:03:19
Aaron Hurst
There's no clear answer for it. So, I think what's great about government is that it's slow moving so it doesn't overreact to things, but that also prevents it from being effective in the modern era. So we need to find a way to keep what works about a slow moving government that makes it deliberate and predictable and that people feel like they're living in a stable society and at the same time figure out how can it respond to things that are changing on a monthly basis. And I haven't seen a model for how to do that yet but think that is one of the big riddles for the next decade.
00:19:03:21 - 00:19:43:18
Lisa Thee
If you're looking for a new topic, perhaps this could be the thesis. Yeah. And what I think is really interesting is from a global perspective how differently the lens on whether AI is going to be positive or negative varies by geography. I think we see a lot more of the risks and dystopian kind of concerns out of Europe and the U.S., whereas in areas like Asia, we see a lot of optimism for what value it could bring into those communities. And I think it's really going to be fascinating to watch that play out because we're probably all right, at the same time.
00:19:43:20 - 00:20:10:18
Aaron Hurst
People who have power and resources generally don't like anything that has potential to disrupt that. And that's what the U.S. and Europe represents. Places where they're still climbing and looking for advantage and ways to build power and economic success, like that kind of disruptive innovation represents opportunity, not threat. So, I think a lot of it has to do with sort of economic realities of these different countries, from where I see it.
00:20:10:21 - 00:20:38:14
Lisa Thee
I think you're right, and I've been ruminating on that for six months and I appreciate you adding that layer of context. I think it is really valuable. So, as entrepreneurs, besides mental health challenges that we all have in common, I think a lot of us learn more from our failures than our successes. I would love to hear a little bit about a failure that you've had that you learned a lot from, that you can help share with other people so that perhaps they take a different approach.
00:20:38:17 - 00:21:19:18
Aaron Hurst
I guess failures have probably been around boards as a CEO, and looking for, I think I made the mistake multiple times of trying to bring in board members that represent resources or status instead of values alignment. Every time that's happened, it's created a short-term benefit, but that the tail of it is much more expensive than that short term benefit and really like curating the right board, especially as an entrepreneur, but I think in any company of any size is so critical. And figuring, and that's why I think knowing your values and knowing your purpose is so important as a company. Because if you don't know that you actually don't know who the right board members are because then you’re just trying to look for people based on skills, based on money, based on status.
00:21:19:23 - 00:21:55:04
Aaron Hurst
And those are not the things that are going to move you forward. And so that would be one mistake. And I guess also, you know, early on in my career with key management hires where I hired people based on logos they had on their resume. And that was a classic mistake. That's definitely, I hope that I've learned from. I think it's also being clear with what you enjoy and what you what you love doing. And I think what I've found is that the operations of a company is not where my joy is. It is in the, it's more on the leadership side and I think that’s more of the job of an entrepreneur is that you start off so small that you can't not do the operations.
00:21:55:07 - 00:22:29:27
Aaron Hurst
So that's been a big part of the riddle I'm working on right now is how can I continue to lead, make an impact, you know, generate income for my family, but not play an operational role? So, I'm doing a lot of new ventures where I'm bringing in teams to run them and I'm just serving as a board chair or as a partner and experimenting with that as a model as an entrepreneur. More, I call it being organizationally polygamous, having many organizations, not just one, but not being like 100% in any one of them. Because I think the other challenge is that I have at times been so committed. I'm very loyal to an organization that I've started, where I probably should have left way sooner than I did.
00:22:29:29 - 00:22:43:17
Lisa Thee
I think that is the challenge of prioritizing impact as your main measurable. Sometimes you can be a dog with a bone and not step back when just because you can doesn't mean you should be the one to do it. I can relate to that very deeply.
00:22:43:19 - 00:23:01:16
Aaron Hurst
Yeah, absolutely. There’s a test I used to give myself every year, just if I hired someone else for my job, could they do it at least 90% as well? And if so, I should probably leave because I can make more value creating something new. Not always the best economic decision for myself but just from an impact standpoint, that's where I try to give myself that test.
00:23:01:19 - 00:23:25:18
Lisa Thee
I love that concept of having more of a portfolio career than a lane, right. And you're really a lived example of what's possible when you pull up and say, where am I strong? What are my values, where is my mission, and how do I energize as many organizations and people as possible with alignment to build that community of people that are empowered to go work on that?
00:23:25:21 - 00:23:58:15
Aaron Hurst
It gives you flexibility. What I found is that within a month of leaving CEO role, my blood pressure went from unhealthy to healthy, like literally changed like how my body worked. And that just to me was so important just to see that, like a human KPI, your key performance indicator, your blood pressure and to see how unhealthy sitting in that role was for me and that how just simply not being in that changed my chemistry and the way my body was working was a big, to your point about like learning from failure, like that to me was a really, really important wakeup call.
00:23:58:18 - 00:24:26:01
Lisa Thee
Absolutely. And unfortunately, in my executive coaching that I've done in a past life, I've seen that play out multiple times with multiple people. In fact, I usually put people on a 90-day plan because it's about the average amount of time of a medical leave in corporate America where they can start to see, oh, when I'm not subjected to this environment for these many hours doing this many things, my body is more able to function properly.
00:24:26:01 - 00:24:45:09
Lisa Thee
I always thought that was funny, coming up in the silicon world that we had spec sheets for how we operate computer chips to make sure that they are healthy and going to perform as expected. But we're also built from the same root substance, and we don't expect that out of humans.
00:24:45:12 - 00:25:09:06
Aaron Hurst
No, that’s great and I just got one of those Oura rings recently, a couple weeks ago, I just started to get the personal data because I'd never done that with an Apple Watch, what have you. It is sort of interesting to think of yourself as an experiment in like how to optimize. There's probably a point in which it's unhealthy, but I've really enjoyed having that kind of insight to like check myself when I'm doing things. It's like sending the message like what you did yesterday was not the right environment for you.
00:25:09:08 - 00:25:13:03
Lisa Thee
Those real-time analytics and using data to make those next decisions.
00:25:13:03 - 00:25:19:23
Aaron Hurst
Yeah, because you go to a doctor once a year and it's like not terribly helpful, it’ll be like two data points. You can't isolate what caused anything.
00:25:19:26 - 00:25:46:09
Lisa Thee
Absolutely. So, I think this next generation coming up are going to have to be lifelong learners. I think the days of pick a job and do it for a pension have been gone for a long time. But I think a lot of people have, still have that specialist's mindset today that are coming up. What advice would you give to this next generation that are going to be stepping into leadership on how to best apply themselves in a rapidly changing world of innovation?
00:25:46:11 - 00:25:55:23
Aaron Hurst
I mean, you hit on the first thing, which is learn how to learn. Just learning that skill, which I don't think schools taught very well for a long time. It is learning how to learn. The second one is.
00:25:55:23 - 00:26:01:06
Lisa Thee
It’s great if you want to be a factory worker. We're really good at producing, you know, for the 1950s.
00:26:01:12 - 00:26:20:06
Aaron Hurst
Yeah, but it still doesn’t serve you as a human being, in that context I would say. I think the second piece is what I've learned is the importance of coaching methodology, not necessarily to be a coach, but recognizing like for example, giving advice to people is not effective. The person who benefits from advice giving is the person giving it, not the one receiving it.
00:26:20:13 - 00:26:41:00
Aaron Hurst
Research has shown that. So, I think if early on you can learn how to ask open-ended questions, how to help people solve their own challenges, whether it's for your intimate partners, your friends, your kids, your job, learning those basic communication skills around how to basically do what a coach does will serve you better than any skill out there.
00:26:41:03 - 00:27:05:00
Aaron Hurst
And then the final piece I look at, you know, I've been doing a lot of work, you know this term purpose mindset and it really is an evolution of a focus on like figure out your purpose, figure out your calling, which I actually have come to realize is a fixed mindset. It's actually you're saying like I have a purpose is a fixed mindset because it becomes rigid or if I have a calling is a fixed mindset because as soon as I take that away from you, because you retire, you're done.
00:27:05:02 - 00:27:24:07
Aaron Hurst
Or if you have to switch jobs, you're done. Like that is a fixed mindset. And I'm finding a purpose mindset is someone who just builds the skill set to create meaning on a daily basis and understands the process of creating meaning on a daily basis from wherever they are. If you can do that, no matter what happens, like you're going to figure out how to make the lemonade out of the lemons.
00:27:24:09 - 00:27:43:01
Aaron Hurst
You're going to figure out how to make the most of your life. So, it's that combination of lifelong learner, learning how to learn top skills, like figuring out how to be basic coaching skills. And then the third is really recognizing that it’s not about purpose, it's about having a purpose mindset and a purpose mindset is about realizing that you're a meaning making machine and that you make meaning out of everything around you.
00:27:43:01 - 00:27:56:00
Aaron Hurst
But you need to control what meaning you're applying to things so that you're applying not neutral, but positive meaning to things. And that in of itself will dramatically change your life and set you up to be open to a lot more possibility.
00:27:56:02 - 00:28:21:02
Lisa Thee
Thank you so much for your time today, Aaron. I think we all are envisioning the new future of work and the impacts that innovation can have when you integrate that third and most critical ingredient, a purpose. And I think you're a great lived example of 25 years of what are the possibilities and the impact that you can have. For people that would like to keep up with you and see what your next innovations are going to be looking like, where are the best ways to find you?
00:28:21:07 - 00:28:36:01
Aaron Hurst
Yeah, LinkedIn is a great way. I've got a new venture called board.dev, which is getting tech execs onto nonprofit boards, so people are interested in that, would love to have them check that out. And then PurposeEconomy.com is sort of my main web presence, so would love to hear from folks.
00:28:36:04 - 00:28:37:24
Lisa Thee
Thank you so much for your time today, Aaron.
00:28:37:24 - 00:28:42:15
Aaron Hurst
Oh, so much fun.