In this episode of Navigating Forward, Creighton Adams, Kurt Alaybeyoglu, and Liz Gerson from Launch Consulting get together to discuss bridging the gap between business stakeholders and engineers. As Director of Cybersecurity, Director of Compliance, and Account Executive, they each bring a unique perspective to the challenges of a cybersecurity project — and where they all agree is that desirable solutions can't be built without trust, feedback, and communications.
With real-world examples from collaborations with energy utilities, they delve into the challenges that teams can face on cybersecurity projects. They cover the bases from digging in to understand the real problems to gap analysis and risk assessments amidst technological debt — and how building trust between participants is the key to both a strong partnership and a successful outcome.
To learn more about how to develop your organization's Future State of Cybersecurity, go to launchconsulting.com/cyber.
Follow Creighton at https://www.linkedin.com/in/creighton-adams/
Follow Kurt at https://www.linkedin.com/in/m-kurt-alaybeyoglu-b1a52395/
Follow Liz at https://www.linkedin.com/in/lizgerson/
In this episode of Navigating Forward, Creighton Adams, Kurt Alaybeyoglu, and Liz Gerson from Launch Consulting get together to discuss bridging the gap between business stakeholders and engineers. As Director of Cybersecurity, Director of Compliance, and Account Executive, they each bring a unique perspective to the challenges of a cybersecurity project — and where they all agree is that desirable solutions can't be built without trust, feedback, and communications.
With real-world examples from collaborations with energy utilities, they delve into the challenges that teams can face on cybersecurity projects. They cover the bases from digging in to understand the real problems to gap analysis and risk assessments amidst technological debt — and how building trust between participants is the key to both a strong partnership and a successful outcome.
To learn more about how to develop your organization's Future State of Cybersecurity, go to launchconsulting.com/cyber.
Follow Creighton at https://www.linkedin.com/in/creighton-adams/
Follow Kurt at https://www.linkedin.com/in/m-kurt-alaybeyoglu-b1a52395/
Follow Liz at https://www.linkedin.com/in/lizgerson/
00:00:01:17 - 00:00:49:08
Narrator
Cybersecurity is one of the most important and most complex aspects of modern business. Ransomware and other cyberattacks are skyrocketing. Millions of security jobs remain vacant, and in the age of AI, new opportunities and threats are growing quickly. In this special series from Navigating Forward, security and business experts from Launch Consulting explore the evolving landscape of cybersecurity across industries. Along with a slate of distinguished guests, we’ll discuss how organizations can build healthy habits and practices that promote cyber resilience for the long haul. Join us as we uncover what businesses need to do now to prepare for what's coming next. This is Navigating Forward, the Cybersecurity series.
00:00:49:10 - 00:00:58:21
Creighton Adams
Joining me today being Creighton Adams, myself, the Cybersecurity Director, and my colleague in crime, Kurt. Why don’t you speak a little bit about yourself.
00:00:58:24 - 00:01:41:04
Kurt Alaybeyoglu
Hello, everyone. I'm Kurt Alaybeyoglu. I’m the Director of Compliance here at Launch. A little bit about myself, where I got into the world of cybersecurity in the civilian world, I was an Air Force cyber warfare officer for eight years, graduated the academy 2010 and went and worked at a number of different locations. Andrews Air Force Base, doing nuclear command and control cybersecurity, and at NSA, Georgia on the offensive side, doing a bunch of work with the 105th Combat Cyber Mission Team, got out after eight years and then went immediately into cybersecurity on the civilian side and found my calling in ICS and OT and developing and engineering solutions.
00:01:41:06 - 00:01:48:01
Creighton Adams
Thank you much, Kurt. And also, colleague here on the engagement side, Liz. And you want to speak a minute about yourself?
00:01:48:05 - 00:02:16:14
Liz Gerson
Sure. Thanks, Creighton. I'm Liz Gerson. I'm an Account Executive with Launch Consulting. I've worked in the technology space for about 12 years now in different capacities, helping to build engineering teams within early-stage startup companies and then working with well-established clients across many different industries, helping to find talent within engineering, build teams, and help solve some strategic initiatives.
00:02:16:21 - 00:02:26:00
Liz Gerson
I've been with Launch now for almost a couple of years now and have done a lot of work with our teams specifically in the cybersecurity and compliance space.
00:02:26:04 - 00:03:06:17
Creighton Adams
Fantastic. Thanks, Liz. So, items I want to talk about today is when wherever we go on to an engagement, engagements are different every single time, similar to a snowflake. And there's a need that the business needs to satisfy either on a compliance aspect, an engineering aspect, a health and safety aspect. How can we bridge the gap of the business need to what the engineers need to deploy day in and day out? And some of the systematic items I've noticed is when there's good, positive engagement from either the engagement community, sales community, or the business itself, it really does help the engineering aspect and what needs to be built long term, not necessarily short term, but definitely long term.
00:03:06:17 - 00:03:27:06
Creighton Adams
And vice versa, when there's good engineering engagement, setting that back up through the sales side and through the engagement community to the stakeholders, there is that open and honest conversation that is able to build not necessarily a bright and shiny, but what I like to call a dull and durable product and sometimes rules and regulations besides me reading them, can be dull and durable, even though I find them exciting.
00:03:27:09 - 00:03:43:22
Creighton Adams
So, a couple of examples I want to go through and thank you for providing me feedback, team, is a member-owned not for profit electrical utility serving approximately 33,000 customers. Give me some highlights in how that engagement started and what went well. Who wants to start from there?
00:03:43:25 - 00:04:11:26
Liz Gerson
Creighton, I can kick this off as far as our, I guess, initial conversations with this electric utility. You know, the Director of IT had a very small team, did not have dedicated cybersecurity professionals in-house and so was really looking for a fresh set of eyes to assess their environment. She was actively looking for some cybersecurity awareness training, different pieces.
00:04:11:26 - 00:04:35:20
Liz Gerson
And I think, you know, initially when we first engage with the client, first and foremost, I think we're just, you know, building rapport, of course, but establishing credibility. And I think we were able to do that successfully right away. We really clicked with this Director very quickly from a personality and communication standpoint. But I think our team also does a great job of building credibility quickly.
00:04:35:20 - 00:04:55:18
Liz Gerson
We have extremely talented and bright engineers here at Launch. So, I think that that led to the initial success and being able to, you know, understand what it was that she was looking for her needs and then propose some solutions. But I'll let Kurt kind of add to that from a technical perspective.
00:04:55:20 - 00:05:32:05
Kurt Alaybeyoglu
Yeah. I mean, one of the nice things of working with at least individuals who understand the value of where they're at and the gap analysis and to be able to understand that the situation that they're in from a regulatory standpoint, they understand that it's not, that it's not set in stone. And so, in this case, with this particular client, we had done this sort of ransomware gap analysis, and they're not a CIP-regulated entity, but there is, you know, rumblings of changes coming down the line, what is going to be requirements for the future.
00:05:32:07 - 00:06:00:18
Kurt Alaybeyoglu
So, one of the things that we highlighted was that there was really no place for them to have this sort of collated, they didn't have a log architecture strategy, they didn't have log correlation and aggregation happening and these were things when we identified there wasn't a need to create a sort of fear, uncertainty, doubt. It was easy enough for us to be able to simply point out that if someone were to log in somewhere and do something, they don't have visibility into it.
00:06:00:18 - 00:06:39:11
Kurt Alaybeyoglu
So, the nice thing about working with this client is that they understood that the lack of visibility in what they were seeing wasn't simply a wasn't just a cybersecurity problem, but it was also a management and visibility problem to be able to solve for. And so we were able to quickly get on the same page and get a consensus as to what we needed and say, okay, well, let's go, let's start seeing what we need to collect, Let's go build, let's go build a POC and let's see what we can do, especially for the for the cooperatives, because there is there was a talk that was given at S4 not too long ago by Emma
00:06:39:11 - 00:07:05:12
Kurt Alaybeyoglu
Stewart, where she was able to very quickly point out the problems with these smaller generation and distribution, or transmission distribution, to be able to show that when you only have $100,000 to spend on cybersecurity tools or just to spend in general, are you going to spend it on weatherizing and protecting your equipment? Are you going to spend it on maintenance?
00:07:05:12 - 00:07:25:06
Kurt Alaybeyoglu
Are you going to spend it on half the salary of a junior cybersecurity analyst, or are you going to spend it on a shiny tool? Chances are it's not going to be number four. So, we're working with them to be able to identify what we can do with open source tools, what we can collect, and how we can get it done for them.
00:07:25:09 - 00:07:46:01
Creighton Adams
So, I'm hearing is that we were able to build rapport because we have fantastic Mr. Kurt that's able to present pretty articulately the user case that's at hand. And then you have special handling by somebody like Liz that can get the real information out of the business stakeholders and feel the situation for what it is, is it tense, is it loose, is it scary, is it hairy?
00:07:46:01 - 00:07:58:08
Creighton Adams
What's the problem that's at hand and the temperature of the room? Is that echoing at all on your side, Liz? How to handle an engagement and where to steer conversations for fact finding?
00:07:58:08 - 00:08:05:04
Liz Gerson
Absolutely. So, I always I guess I consider myself sort of in a way like the human buffer.
00:08:05:04 - 00:08:08:10
Creighton Adams
The human buffer, perfect.
00:08:08:12 - 00:08:09:21
Kurt Alaybeyoglu
Because I'm a robot.
00:08:09:23 - 00:08:47:15
Liz Gerson
Yeah. Kurt’s the robot, I’m the human. You know, we as I mentioned, you know, we have such talented engineers and on our team and people who are performing the work and coming up with the solution. But I'm here as the person to make sure timelines are moving along accordingly. But also, what I've found in a lot of our client engagements is oftentimes the folks that we're working with might not feel totally comfortable sometimes even sharing specific feedback with the technical SMEs that are performing the work, especially if it's not entirely positive.
00:08:47:17 - 00:09:11:24
Liz Gerson
You know, maybe something's gone a little bit astray or, you know, I feel like that's where I come in. They can say, they can pull me aside and say, hey, Liz, wanted to share some feedback. You know, this happened last week. Can we make sure we move in this direction next week? And I can provide that to the team without getting them distracted or flustered and be able to listen to the client too.
00:09:11:26 - 00:09:18:12
Liz Gerson
And just take in their thoughts, their feedback, their concerns, their praise, whatever it might be.
00:09:18:17 - 00:09:48:07
Kurt Alaybeyoglu
To add on, on top of that, it's also really important to be able to identify or to be able to help the client. Oftentimes they're not even really sure what it is exactly they want. And so, it oftentimes becomes a fact finding, a digging process of 20 questions of saying, you think you want this. But really what I'm hearing when you're explaining things to me is, I'm hearing something different.
00:09:48:10 - 00:10:19:16
Kurt Alaybeyoglu
And that becomes a problem of unknown unknowns, if you will, where they go based off of what they know and they're explaining things. And it's really up to you to be able to dig at the heart of the problem, say, okay, I don't want you to tell me what you think you want. I want you to tell me what your problem is and then let me design a solution for you that makes sense and that works within your budget and that works within your operating constraints.
00:10:19:18 - 00:10:37:09
Creighton Adams
Yeah, I have to say yes to both of those narratives. I mean, in my in my mind, I just go, okay, what's the economics of the equation? Because if you look at the dollar amounts or the time amounts, everyone has that resource contention, that resource constraint, and that makes sense in a fiduciary and financial cycle. Here's some money.
00:10:37:16 - 00:10:58:00
Creighton Adams
Here's three problems. Find how far you can go with that bucket of money and report back in. I mean, that's a common cycle. But I like what you're both saying, actually, and I'm going to try and replay it back articulately, which is, listen to the customer and then repeat back their ask in their own words with your perspective on what needs to be done.
00:10:58:03 - 00:11:24:13
Creighton Adams
Did I capture that? Effectively, because that's that you understand me. And if you can understand me, you understand my problem. If you understand my problem, I hear that you've done this before and you're using the right words. And then that's where the client engagement team can bring on either the client's engineering staff that says, oh yeah, Kurt knows the words, Kurt says the right things, and then the business unit can then say, well, Liz always answers my phone call.
00:11:24:15 - 00:11:44:10
Creighton Adams
She responds to my emails in a timely fashion. I can trust that she's going to eventually get me an answer or perform a follow-up. And that goes with that economy of trust, proven actions through time. And the more often we do that, the easier it is to conduct said transactions in the future. So let me bounce this question off of both of you for some feedback.
00:11:44:12 - 00:11:51:07
Creighton Adams
If there's more trust, what do you see from your engagement perspective and from your engineering perspective?
00:11:51:09 - 00:12:41:08
Kurt Alaybeyoglu
I would say from an engineering perspective, more trust allows for the ability to really, so we talked about operating constraints before. Every company has that tech debt, every company has those issues that have grown over time, and building that trust both in competence and also in your integrity as an engineering contributor is critical to be able to get people to open up about those issues, because that does I mean, whether they believe so or not, it will always affect how solutions are designed because it's going to affect their operating constraints, it's going to affect their ability to continue to use whatever solution that they provide.
00:12:41:08 - 00:13:05:16
Kurt Alaybeyoglu
Because the last thing that I want to do is provide, as you said, the next bright shiny that they collect once I'm once I’m done with my engagement and then it sits on the shelf and collects dust. We want to make sure that the things that we're doing that they have the continued ability to use or that what we're designing for them really does truly fit in their environment so that using it becomes second nature.
00:13:05:18 - 00:13:29:25
Liz Gerson
Yeah, and just to kind of, I guess, piggyback off of Kurt, I think when we build trust with our clients, we get more open and honest communication from them, which is important for Kurt, you know, to do his job, to be able to perform the work, but also just helps us dig a little bit deeper into not only their problems but their motivations.
00:13:29:25 - 00:14:05:19
Liz Gerson
You know, aside from the obvious, maybe not always obvious, but aside from the business case as to why they need to, you know, have a certain project done or the problem that needs to be solved, a lot of times there are personal motivations tied to us performing work. Especially if we're working with a team of stakeholders more than one person understanding how this project, this outcome will affect each of those people is helpful to know and helpful for us to be the best advisor, the best resource for them.
00:14:05:21 - 00:14:15:07
Liz Gerson
But we can't get that information unless we've built a level of trust with the client. And so that's a huge factor in a successful engagement.
00:14:15:10 - 00:14:36:12
Creighton Adams
I'd have to agree, especially with cybersecurity, right? It's a unique body of work, which by its very nature requires that trust to take place. You know, a couple of thoughts are, thank you for sharing, both of you. A couple of thoughts that went through my mind while that was being said. First question was how long does the new car smell last on a new car?
00:14:36:12 - 00:14:58:21
Creighton Adams
I don't know where my brain went for that, but it's kind of for, this bright and shiny tool. How nice is it until it no longer functions the way that it was promised? The shine wears off. And then a story that my grandfather, my uncle Doug shared this a long time ago, but he was an eighties kid and he wanted that brand new fox body Mustang that was nice and beautiful and in all the music videos.
00:14:58:23 - 00:15:15:27
Creighton Adams
But he was a high school kid and that wasn't exactly cheap for a high school kid to have. Or he can have the used family station wagon that had multiple-colored doors on it. Well, my grandfather says, well, you can owe somebody for the next five years or you can take this car for free. What's your goal? We want to have adventures, you know, take the free car.
00:15:16:03 - 00:15:36:24
Creighton Adams
So those decisions need to be owned by the individual helping making those decisions, which are the business individuals. Take that bucket of cash, have that honest conversation. Is that really what you need? And then you can bet on it in the future, long term. So, let's go to the next item. We're working with a Fortune 500 electric and natural gas utility serving several markets.
00:15:36:26 - 00:15:38:29
Creighton Adams
What's some backdrop on that story team?
00:15:39:01 - 00:16:15:01
Liz Gerson
That's been kind of a fun story, a fun process working with that organization. Another a new client that we hadn't worked with previously and got to know some of the leadership within their cybersecurity department very well. Through the course of conversations, we started discussing performing a risk assessment of their ACH systems. It was something that they needed to have done and Kurt I'll let you expand on this as far as kind of the milestones and the I guess, what ultimately they were trying to achieve with this.
00:16:15:03 - 00:16:44:11
Kurt Alaybeyoglu
To give more context around that, essentially it was an audit, kind of. It was also a risk assessment, and it was also taking into account threat modeling. It sounds kind of a strange combination, but a threat is a key part of risk in that risk is actually if you, if you try to break it down into an equation, breaks down into three different parts, that is threat, vulnerability, and consequence.
00:16:44:13 - 00:17:15:21
Kurt Alaybeyoglu
When you combine these three things together, you get risk and most people oftentimes will equate sometimes threat to risk, sometimes vulnerability to risk or sometimes impact to risk. And the reality is all three of these things combined together are crucial elements to be able to identify and quantify risk. So, when I initially presented the method that we were using to conduct this assessment, it started with threat modeling.
00:17:15:24 - 00:17:34:14
Kurt Alaybeyoglu
And there they were kind of actually at the beginning, very much not I wouldn't say really against it, but they were reticent. They were like Kurt, you got to explain to me, I don't understand how this is going to apply to what we need and what we're doing. And I took kind of a, if you build it, they will come approach.
00:17:34:14 - 00:18:00:06
Kurt Alaybeyoglu
Come follow me, come down the rabbit hole with me. Let me explain to you how this works. So, we started with this is your threat profile. These are the bad guys that are interested in you. This is the techniques that they've used in the past against organizations that are similar to yours. Now that we understand that, now that we have your tech stack, now we know what you're what you're using.
00:18:00:08 - 00:18:36:21
Kurt Alaybeyoglu
Now we know what you can actually collect on. So now, all right, that's great, Kurt. I get it. You're real smart. You know about threats. How does this tie into what we need for Nacha? Which Nacha is the National Automated Clearinghouse Association? They're the guys who are responsible for making sure that when you make, tracking payments, using the ACH system that they go through, that they go to the right place, and that they're collecting the right information in order to be able to process all payments.
00:18:36:23 - 00:19:15:09
Kurt Alaybeyoglu
So, the thing with certain rules and certain auditing formats is some are tighter than others, some are more stringent, some have different outside organizations that will actually come in and do that and others will rely on kind of a self-policing system of how you're going to be able to collect and validate that information. But overall, there is a lot of churn there, and there's also a lot of confusion with many of the participant as to what needs to happen.
00:19:15:09 - 00:19:38:19
Kurt Alaybeyoglu
So, this allows us to then say, all right, we got your threat model. Now we have your external threats. That's the bad guys that you need to protect against. You’ve also got auditors. Those are a threat for you, too. And they kind of laughed at that. But I said, but no, but seriously, because they're the ones who are going to come in and they're going to look to see whether you've been a good boy or a bad boy or good girl, bad girl.
00:19:38:19 - 00:20:05:22
Kurt Alaybeyoglu
And whether you can follow these rules. So, you need to treat them as an adversary, and you need to make sure that you have the data collection and the pieces in place to be able to satisfy the criteria that they need. And so, once I was able to point that out and show right now that we know our threats and we're able to take that and tie all that together and say, all right, here are your vulnerabilities, here are the things that we know you're not following.
00:20:05:24 - 00:20:27:08
Kurt Alaybeyoglu
And we're able to tie all of that together in a nice, neat bow, or in this case, an Excel spreadsheet and be able to point and say, here are the things that you're following. Here are the things you're not doing. Here's how it affects externally with bad guys and here's how it affects you with audit. Here's how we tie that together in a nice, clean, point-based quantification.
00:20:27:10 - 00:20:41:03
Kurt Alaybeyoglu
And to be able to then prioritize and say, here are the things that you need to focus on. You need to get this A, B, and C done first because it can have a serious outcome, whether it's from bad guys coming in or whether it's from an audit.
00:20:41:06 - 00:20:47:18
Liz Gerson
Can I just say that Excel spreadsheet that Kurt's referring to is a piece of artwork.
00:20:47:19 - 00:20:48:06
Creighton Adams
Right, exactly.
00:20:48:06 - 00:20:57:16
Liz Gerson
We just we just reviewed this with another department within that utility, and they even said they were like, wow, this is great. This is so helpful.
00:20:57:16 - 00:21:00:17
Kurt Alaybeyoglu
Excel’s a security tool, deal with it.
00:21:00:20 - 00:21:20:27
Creighton Adams
Oh, my goodness. Oh, my soul hurts. But I mean, when you're going through these details, it's almost as if you have to have a degree in history to follow along, right. There's an origin point to a lot of these things. And I know you do, buddy. That's why I had to say it. But I'm a history buff myself, so I mean, to know how the world functions, right?
00:21:20:27 - 00:21:42:17
Creighton Adams
Let's take a step back. And it is an absolute wonder how the world is put together today. You know, you plug something in the wall, electricity comes out, I play my Xbox, watch Netflix, whatever. Turn on the faucet, water flows for the most part in the world, and especially in the United States here. But that was done so long ago that you need that revamp to keep it up to speed.
00:21:42:19 - 00:22:01:29
Creighton Adams
There's so much wattage being drawn with like electric cars and modern appliances. Well, all the stuff we built back in the mid-century needs to be rebuilt and with new technology to take advantage of all of that, because not everyone wants to be a lineman all the time. Or how can we have predicted failures? You just need to know so much to make it applicable.
00:22:02:01 - 00:22:23:18
Creighton Adams
I mean, it's a large body of work. And, you know, when you're talking about logging, it reminded me of a picture I took in class one day where there's a security feature, which was the camera for the hallway. Somebody put the exit sign right in front of it. So, there's your security level, can't see anything. And the irony is that it was the exit sign.
00:22:23:25 - 00:22:41:18
Creighton Adams
So, with Kurt's details or even my details because I know I could stand on the pulpit for an extended period of time. Liz, how do you manage that? How do you manage that body of work and relaying to the client's needs? Or the client goes, I don't know, Kurt just talked for 20 minutes, or Creighton talked for 30.
00:22:41:21 - 00:22:46:05
Creighton Adams
He said something in there like, how do you manage that Liz?
00:22:46:07 - 00:23:24:01
Liz Gerson
That's a great question. Well, I try not to interrupt Kurt's train of thought typically, but, you know, when we first start, you know, engaging with the client, part of that is setting expectations for communication, for check-ins for getting that feedback from the client consistently through the process. I don't know that we would ever be able to complete a successful project if we didn't have a consistent loop of feedback and that all kind of ties in to, like we said in the beginning, just kind of establishing that relationship, building that credibility and trust.
00:23:24:03 - 00:23:27:00
Liz Gerson
So, I don't know if that answers your question, but.
00:23:27:02 - 00:23:46:11
Creighton Adams
No, it does. So, what was going through my mind is, you know, at the end of the day, we're still also humans. We're working on computers; we're interacting in groups. But when you see, like how I've always read it and let me know if this resonates, when the engineers get together and they keep talking engineer and they're excited about it and you see the energy level rise, just let them keep engineering.
00:23:46:14 - 00:24:05:00
Creighton Adams
I'm going to go ahead and have a conversation with the business owner and the stakeholders to make sure that we're satisfying their needs that came from either external parties or internal needs and then check in every once in a while. Are the engineers still engineering? Are they tired? Do they need a pizza. Like what's going on in that engineering bucket?
00:24:05:00 - 00:24:30:23
Creighton Adams
Are they getting mad at one another? Okay, separate the engineers and then come back later to make sure that there's something happening. And then when there is friction identified and I don't mean this to be an analogy for child daycare, but, you know, there's little details that play out in conversations. Well, I'm not saying, but, you know, there's little details that play out because, again, with cyber, there's some sensitive information that might be shared.
00:24:30:26 - 00:24:58:15
Creighton Adams
So how can we build that trust? It's that honest action through time and then bringing out other relevant details that we've worked on before that has worked in the past and hopefully that can mold to the situation that's at hand, because, again, it'll be hard, not impossible, but hard to know as much details as some of those cyber leads and translate that to business detail that they need to adhere to.
00:24:58:17 - 00:25:23:01
Liz Gerson
I think Creighton that sort that leads me to, you know, as advisors, we're not coming in and just telling people what to do or pointing out what they're doing wrong, but partnering with them to say, okay, here is, here's what we're discovering, here's what we're finding, and let's work together to find the best solution. You know, that's important to how we're communicating information to the client.
00:25:23:04 - 00:25:43:25
Creighton Adams
No, absolutely. And you know, what goes through my mind is in some engagements, it's hard at the start. So, I'm imagining taking off on an airplane, while trying to solve a Rubik's Cube, trying to navigate my way back to my seat. Good luck with that. Right. Being that human buffer is wonderful because it allows the engineers to stay in that flow state.
00:25:44:00 - 00:26:06:06
Creighton Adams
You know, they're still solving that Rubik's Cube. And if you see a hurdle down the road, hey Kurt, you're going to want to put that Rubik's Cube down in about 3 minutes. Okay, cool. And then beyond that, we're here to help you succeed, period. Because if you don't succeed, then I did not succeed. Period. That's it. And that's long term.
00:26:06:09 - 00:26:29:25
Creighton Adams
And that goes back to that economy of trust. So, I might tell you something right now that you might not like, but that's because I see that Rubik's Cube problem in about 3 minutes. So, what would you like to do about that? Because I'm here for you. I really am. So, to flip the human buffer question over, Kurt, why is it so beneficial to have a great partner in crime from the business and engagement community?
00:26:29:25 - 00:26:36:17
Creighton Adams
What does it help you on? Well, now she's here. Be careful with your words.
00:26:36:19 - 00:27:14:04
Kurt Alaybeyoglu
Well, to begin with, someone that you can trust that if I if I were to go ahead and test something, and especially what I do hope for is a willingness to learn. And that's really important. That's one of the things that why I'm always like, please tell me I'm working with Liz on the project, because at the very least, I know that even if she doesn't know what the key or critical aspects are, I know that she's going to put time and effort into learning and being able to help with the constant communication, because, as she says, it is incredibly important.
00:27:14:06 - 00:27:40:22
Kurt Alaybeyoglu
But many times, when engineers are engineering, especially with the types of problems sets that we work on, it requires a constant stream of thought. It requires a constant focus. Having someone like Liz who knows how to get what we need quickly and to be able to establish and maintain that constant contact so that we're not bothered. We can,
00:27:40:28 - 00:27:44:01
Kurt Alaybeyoglu
engineers can keep engineering.
00:27:44:04 - 00:27:45:28
Creighton Adams
Yeah. Anything else to add on that Liz?
00:27:45:28 - 00:28:30:27
Liz Gerson
Well, thank you, Kurt, for the kind words, I appreciate it. But no, it really is a team effort and that's something that I've figured out from day one with Launch, you know, working with this team. So I'm happy to facilitate the communication and schedule the follow-ups and, and do all that, because I think when I take over that piece and Kurt can focus on his we work like a well-oiled machine, which is good for us, our day to day happiness, but also and most importantly, good for the client and, you know, results in a successful project and successful but also enjoyable engagement too, with the client. So, so yes.
00:28:30:29 - 00:28:56:05
Creighton Adams
No, I just have to wholeheartedly agree. I mean, even myself, I went through the pains and struggles. You know how hard it is to plan a party that everyone enjoys? That's hard, that's hard and not have like a bunch of leftover food and make sure people are on the point when they show up appropriately and you have the right headcount and that you don't have any other things that are damaged or broken in the process and have everyone leaving saying that was the best. That takes weeks.
00:28:56:07 - 00:29:12:16
Creighton Adams
And that's just to have something that everyone knows that they can look forward to, a party. When you have that on a complicated or a complex project, that only compounds the situation. So having the human buffer term, I'm going to keep that, Liz. We're going to trademark that somewhere.
00:29:12:17 - 00:29:13:01
Liz Gerson
Quote me.
00:29:13:02 - 00:29:32:17
Creighton Adams
Human buffering, you know, it's so accurate because at least in my mind, being a former recovering engineer, we think in pictures, and we have to take those pictures and translate them into words. And then hopefully that other person can take those words and put that back into their own picture. Do we have the same picture? That's not easy.
00:29:32:20 - 00:29:38:28
Creighton Adams
All right, guys. So, any final comments, concerns, thoughts that you want to share here? Our time is about to round up.
00:29:39:04 - 00:29:47:08
Kurt Alaybeyoglu
Always looking forward to more challenges like that. So, I'm excited to see what the with the rest of 2023 holds for us.
00:29:47:16 - 00:30:01:12
Liz Gerson
Looking forward to a successful 2023. We've got great clients that we're working with and excited to continue to be able to support them in new ways and more, more enjoyable engagements working with Kurt and other folks on our team.
00:30:01:15 - 00:30:08:01
Creighton Adams
That's it. And I, too, promise to be as trilingual as possible with technology, people, and processes. Thanks, everyone.
00:30:08:01 - 00:30:09:06
Liz Gerson
Thanks. Thanks Creighton.
00:30:09:06 - 00:30:33:20
Narrator
Thanks everyone for joining us for today's episode of Navigating Forward the Cybersecurity Series. Come back next week to get pointers for next steps on your cyber roadmap. And just a reminder that cybersecurity is 80% good habits and hygiene. But to start improving your health, you need a baseline. To learn more about how to develop your organization's future state of cybersecurity, go to launchconsulting.com/cyber.